Richard III Research and Discussion Archive

Sorry I have had to start new thread - the search facility doesn't seem to be working so I couldn't locate the old one. I succumbed to temptation and ordered copies of the two TNA documents implicating Wellesbournes in naughty behaviour, and they have now come in. I'll post them in separate messages in what seems to be their correct chronological order (they aren't actually dated). This one, I think, must belong to 1461.

As background, the following information on the Powers of Bletchingdon is unfortunately necessary:

The line went, father to son, Roger 1 > Roger 2 > Thomas > John > John. Thomas's sister Margery is recorded in the later visitations of Oxfordshire as having married a Wellesbourne.

John Power (the elder?) married, first, one Dorothy and then Mary Curson (Rawlinson, Parochial Collections, p. 47; TNA C 1/1511/6; WH Turner, ed., Visitations of the County of Oxford, p. 209).

9 November 1478  Roger Power presented Oliver Sompnour to the living of Odington church, which was vacant owing to the death of Master Job (Kennet, Parochial Antiquities, vol 1, p. 47).

1479, 1480 or early 1481 - Death of Roger Power of Bletchingdon. He was buried in Bletchingdon church with his wife Juliane (Rawlinson, Parochial Collections, p. 47).

Note. The partially illegible inscription on his tomb reads 147_ , but this may of course have been made many years after his death.

19 May 1481  Writ of diem clausit extremum for Roger Poure esquire; Oxford' (CFR 1471-85, No. 614, p. 212).

24 February 1482  Death of Roger's son Thomas Poure. He was buried in Bletchingdon parish church with his wife Elizabeth, and the date of death is from the inscription there. (Rawlinson, Parochial Collections, p. 47)

22 April 1483  Thomas Tempall esquire, by reason of the keeping of John Power, son and heir of John Power, presented Master William Petyr, LLB, to the church of Odyndon by the resignation of Oliver Sompnour, who accepted the church of Tackley. Reg. Russell.'(Kennet, Parochial Antiquities, vol 1, p. 496).

March 1485  John Power died and was buried in Bletchingdon church, where the inscription on his brass read: Orate pro animabus Johannis Power armigeri, ac dorothee / ac Marie uxorum ejus, qui obiit die Marci anno domini / MCCCC vicesimo quinto, quorum animabus propitietur Deus. Amen. (Rawlinson, Parochial Collections, p. 47).

So that is the background for this first document, which I'm posting here with modernised spelling:-

" C 1/1511/6

To the king our sovereign lord:-

In the most lamentable and piteous wise complaineth unto your good Grace your humble suppliant and daily bedewoman Dorothy, the wife of John Power gentleman, that where she and her said husband were and be lawfully espoused according to the law of Holy Church, in the which they have continued and lived together as it thereto belongeth by the space of two year and more unto the time that Thomas Wellysbourne, Giles Wellysbourne and Thomas Power, of their great malice, the 20th day of May the first year of your reign at Oxford in the county of Oxford, with force and arms contrary to your peace and laws, took the said John Power, husband to your said suppliant, and him led and carried away with them, whither or to what place she knoweth not nor to what intent they have so unlawfully taken him. And so they have retained and witholden him fro the time of the said taking unto this day and will not suffer your said suppliant to come to him nor to know where he is, but so keepeth and alieneth him contrary to God's laws and yours, of the which your said suppliant is remediless by the Common Law because that she is a woman covert and may use none action without her husband.

Please it your Grace therefore, the premises considered, to cause the said Thomas Wellysbourne, Giles Wellesbourne and Thomas Power to come before you in your high court of your Chancery there to answer why that they have, so wrongfully to your peace and laws, taken away and witholden her said husband; and that they be straitly enjoined to bring the said John Power her husband before your said Grace and your said council as he may be at his liberty to show and sue such wrongs and imprisonments as they have committed and done to him; and that they may make sufficient recompense for the same; this for the love of God and in the way of charity. And she shall continually pray to God for the preservation and long continuance of your royal and prosperous estate."

I'm wondering, could this indicate that John Power's married to Dorothy (which isn't recorded in the Visitations) was a love match disapproved of by his family, as Thomas Power and the Wellesbourne brothers would have been John's father and uncles-by marriage respectively? Or am I being fanciful?

Will post the other doc once this one has had time to digest.

Marie

Sorry I have had to start new thread - the search facility doesn't seem to be working so I couldn't locate the old one. I succumbed to temptation and ordered copies of the two TNA documents implicating Wellesbournes in naughty behaviour, and they have now come in. I'll post them in separate messages in what seems to be their correct chronological order (they aren't actually dated). This one, I think, must belong to 1461.

As background, the following information on the Powers of Bletchingdon is unfortunately necessary:

The line went, father to son, Roger 1 > Roger 2 > Thomas > John > John. Thomas's sister Margery is recorded in the later visitations of Oxfordshire as having married a Wellesbourne.

John Power (the elder?) married, first, one Dorothy and then Mary Curson (Rawlinson, Parochial Collections, p. 47; TNA C 1/1511/6; WH Turner, ed., Visitations of the County of Oxford, p. 209).

9 November 1478  Roger Power presented Oliver Sompnour to the living of Odington church, which was vacant owing to the death of Master Job (Kennet, Parochial Antiquities, vol 1, p. 47).

1479, 1480 or early 1481 - Death of Roger Power of Bletchingdon. He was buried in Bletchingdon church with his wife Juliane (Rawlinson, Parochial Collections, p. 47).

Note. The partially illegible inscription on his tomb reads 147_ , but this may of course have been made many years after his death.

19 May 1481  Writ of diem clausit extremum for Roger Poure esquire; Oxford' (CFR 1471-85, No. 614, p. 212).

24 February 1482  Death of Roger's son Thomas Poure. He was buried in Bletchingdon parish church with his wife Elizabeth, and the date of death is from the inscription there. (Rawlinson, Parochial Collections, p. 47)

22 April 1483  Thomas Tempall esquire, by reason of the keeping of John Power, son and heir of John Power, presented Master William Petyr, LLB, to the church of Odyndon by the resignation of Oliver Sompnour, who accepted the church of Tackley. Reg. Russell.'(Kennet, Parochial Antiquities, vol 1, p. 496).

March 1485  John Power died and was buried in Bletchingdon church, where the inscription on his brass read: Orate pro animabus Johannis Power armigeri, ac dorothee / ac Marie uxorum ejus, qui obiit die Marci anno domini / MCCCC vicesimo quinto, quorum animabus propitietur Deus. Amen. (Rawlinson, Parochial Collections, p. 47).

So that is the background for this first document, which I'm posting here with modernised spelling:-

" C 1/1511/6

To the king our sovereign lord:-

In the most lamentable and piteous wise complaineth unto your good Grace your humble suppliant and daily bedewoman Dorothy, the wife of John Power gentleman, that where she and her said husband were and be lawfully espoused according to the law of Holy Church, in the which they have continued and lived together as it thereto belongeth by the space of two year and more unto the time that Thomas Wellysbourne, Giles Wellysbourne and Thomas Power, of their great malice, the 20th day of May the first year of your reign at Oxford in the county of Oxford, with force and arms contrary to your peace and laws, took the said John Power, husband to your said suppliant, and him led and carried away with them, whither or to what place she knoweth not nor to what intent they have so unlawfully taken him. And so they have retained and witholden him fro the time of the said taking unto this day and will not suffer your said suppliant to come to him nor to know where he is, but so keepeth and alieneth him contrary to God's laws and yours, of the which your said suppliant is remediless by the Common Law because that she is a woman covert and may use none action without her husband.

Please it your Grace therefore, the premises considered, to cause the said Thomas Wellysbourne, Giles Wellesbourne and Thomas Power to come before you in your high court of your Chancery there to answer why that they have, so wrongfully to your peace and laws, taken away and witholden her said husband; and that they be straitly enjoined to bring the said John Power her husband before your said Grace and your said council as he may be at his liberty to show and sue such wrongs and imprisonments as they have committed and done to him; and that they may make sufficient recompense for the same; this for the love of God and in the way of charity. And she shall continually pray to God for the preservation and long continuance of your royal and prosperous estate."

I'm wondering, could this indicate that John Power's married to Dorothy (which isn't recorded in the Visitations) was a love match disapproved of by his family, as Thomas Power and the Wellesbourne brothers would have been John's father and uncles-by marriage respectively? Or am I being fanciful?

Will post the other doc once this one has had time to digest.

Marie

Hilary wrote:

Thank you so much. I've been struggling with this because I'd got the wrong John Power - i.e. he who died in 1485 - I thought he had pre-deceased his father as said in the VCH and he doesn't appear after 1483! I have him as married to Margaret Hartwell, sister of Sir William who seems to have married his sister Eleanor before he married Katherine Broughton. So Thomas Power is uncle (and according to the Visitation) married to someone called Banks from Lincolnshire. Haven't done much on him. Must do so

Marie replies:

Looking at the Visitations of Oxon (based on visitations dating from 1566 and 17thC), I see I may have got the Powers slightly wrong, but the only thing that seems certain is that the head of family went Roger (d.1479-81) - Thomas (d. 1482) - John. This doesn't necessarily mean it went father to son, which I had rather been assuming when I wrote my last post.

The Visitation of Oxon in fact indicates that the Thomas who died in 1482 would have been Roger's eldest grandson, his father (also Thomas) having died before his father.

The Visitation also gives two John Powers:

a) John the Elder, brother of Thomas I, married to Margaret Hartwell, and

b) John the Younger, son of John the Elder, married to Mary Curson; his grandson Francis lived until 1619.

But this doesn't fit well at all, as John the Younger is stated to have been a minor in April 1483 (in a reference which suggests that his father was already dead), and yet as we have seen from his brass, the John Power who married Dorothy was the same one who afterwards married Mary Curson, and he died 10 March 1486. Dorothy's petition refers to the kidnap of her husband John Power in the first year of a reign and two years into their marriage. The only other possibility is that Dorothy's petition belongs to the reign of Richard III or Henry VII, but this does not seem possible given that a Thomas Power was involved (the last one known of having died in 1482), and that we have to fit in Dorothy's death and John's remarriage to Mary Curson before his own death in March 1486.

So I wonder if the Visitation perhaps has the two John Cursons' marriages the wrong way about, or has missed a generation somewhere. Anyhow, the Thomas Power who seized Dorothy's John could have been either his father or his elder brother.

I think the only thing to do if it's ever to be sorted out is try to find more contemporary references. It's not something on the top of my list, though.

These families that are recorded but only fitfully are always such a muddle.

Will post the other document next.

Marie

And the other document. Thomas Butler stopped being vicar of High Wycombe in 1508.

TNA REQ 2/12/229

To the king our sovereign lord:-

Showeth unto your Highness your daily orator Simon Felmersham, priest of your town of Wycombe, that where he would live in God's peace and yours to serve God according to his duty, so it is that Sir Thomas Butler, vicar of the same, by the maintenance of Christopher Wellysbourn gentleman, hath grievously beat and wounded your said orator without any cause. And also the same Christopher about a fortnight past came into the house of your said orator, then sitting at his dinner in God's peace and yours, and there had like to have slain your said orator. And over this the same Christopher and the said vicar, as well in the church as other places, so daily threaten and menacen your said orator to murder and slay that he ne dare abide in the same town for fear of his life, by reason whereof they intend to exclude your said orator from his chantry in their said church to his utter undoing unless the favour of your most noble Grace to him be showed in that behalf.

It may please therefore your Highness, the premises considered, to direct your gracious letters of Privy Seal to the same Christopher and vicar, them straitly commanding by the same under a pain to appear afore the lords of your most honourable council at a day limited to answer to the premises, and to see such direction therein as your said orator may live in God's peace and yours and enjoy his said chantry according to right, law and good conscience And your said orator shall daily pray to God for the preservation of your most noble person and estate royal.

(Returnable immediately after the sight, wherever, etc)

Let them make letters under the Privy Seal as he asks.

Hi Marie, just back and thanks once more for all this. Our Christopher and Giles do seem to have been a pair of bad-'uns don't they?