Richard III Research and Discussion Archive

Princess Elizabeth warrant for execution

2018-01-01 16:04:07
Karen O
  I have been reading The Private Lives of the Tudors by Tracy Borman. In the section where Princess Elizabeth Tudor is imprisoned in the Tower at Queen Mary's orders, we get an interesting story. The Lieutenant, Master Bridges received a warrant for her execution. He was evidently a just man for he sought confirmation of its validity from.the queen. Queen Mary was shocked and incensed and stoutly denied issuing it.  This was very curious to.me. I don't know if anyone had heard of it. It was the work of Mary's Lord Chancellor, Stephen Gardiner.  This shows me, at least, that messing with the sovereign's orders could be and was attempted. So much for " no one would have dared do anything in the Tower against the sovereign's wishes. Thoughts?

Re: Princess Elizabeth warrant for execution

2018-01-01 17:48:00
Paul Trevor Bale
It's actually quite a well known story, and may explain Elizabeth's later aversion to executing people without very good reasons and sleeping on it. There is a story about her signing Mary Queen of Scots death warrant by it being hidden in a bundle of documents that needed a signature by Cecil, though I doubt he would have risked it, knowing the queens temper.It doesn't of course mean it was the same for every monarch as personality and personnel in each case needs to be taken into account. Richard could rely on Brackenbury who also would not carry out orders unless he knew the king had sent them. I don't think any servant would have carried out a death warrant without having 100% confirmation in person from the monarch. Gardiner was a slippery customer at the best of times, the fanatical Catholic, and I'm glad to say Elizabeth got her revenge later.Paul


Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 1 janv. 2018 à 17:04, Karen O karenoder4@... [] <> a écrit :

I have been reading The Private Lives of the Tudors by Tracy Borman. In the section where Princess Elizabeth Tudor is imprisoned in the Tower at Queen Mary's orders, we get an interesting story. The Lieutenant, Master Bridges received a warrant for her execution.. He was evidently a just man for he sought confirmation of its validity from.the queen. Queen Mary was shocked and incensed and stoutly denied issuing it. This was very curious to.me. I don't know if anyone had heard of it. It was the work of Mary's Lord Chancellor, Stephen Gardiner. This shows me, at least, that messing with the sovereign's orders could be and was attempted. So much for " no one would have dared do anything in the Tower against the sovereign's wishes. Thoughts?

Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] Princess Elizabeth warran

2018-01-03 17:26:31
Doug Stamate
Karen wrote: I have been reading The Private Lives of the Tudors by Tracy Borman. In the section where Princess Elizabeth Tudor is imprisoned in the Tower at Queen Mary's orders, we get an interesting story. The Lieutenant, Master Bridges received a warrant for her execution. He was evidently a just man for he sought confirmation of its validity from.the queen. Queen Mary was shocked and incensed and stoutly denied issuing it. This was very curious to.me. I don't know if anyone had heard of it. It was the work of Mary's Lord Chancellor, Stephen Gardiner. This shows me, at least, that messing with the sovereign's orders could be and was attempted. So much for " no one would have dared do anything in the Tower against the sovereign's wishes. Thoughts? Doug here: The first question that came to my mind was: Who signed the warrant? Was it Gardiner's? In an attempt to do what he thought was best for the realm, Elizabeth's death? Or was it possibly a forgery in the sense that Gardiner used his official Seal as Lord Chancellor, hoping it would suffice? Doug
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] Princess Elizabeth warran

2018-01-03 17:42:24
Karen O
  I think forgery, although the book doesn't say. 
On Jan 3, 2018 12:29 PM, "'Doug Stamate' destama@... []" <> wrote:
 

      Karen wrote: I have been reading The Private Lives of the Tudors by Tracy Borman. In the section where Princess Elizabeth Tudor is imprisoned in the Tower at Queen Mary's orders, we get an interesting story. The Lieutenant, Master Bridges received a warrant for her execution. He was evidently a just man for he sought confirmation of its validity from.the queen. Queen Mary was shocked and incensed and stoutly denied issuing it.   This was very curious to.me. I don't know if anyone had heard of it. It was the work of Mary's Lord Chancellor, Stephen Gardiner.  This shows me, at least, that messing with the sovereign's orders could be and was attempted. So much for " no one would have dared do anything in the Tower against the sovereign's wishes. Thoughts?   Doug here: The first question that came to my mind was: Who signed the warrant? Was it Gardiner's? In an attempt to do what he thought was best for the realm, Elizabeth's death? Or was it possibly a forgery in the sense that Gardiner used his official Seal as Lord Chancellor, hoping it would suffice? Doug    
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] Princess E

2018-01-04 15:28:47
Doug Stamate
Karen wrote: I think forgery, although the book doesn't say..  Doug here: Well, if Gardiner had tried to pull a fast one, that's the only claim he could make. Perhaps Mary went along with a claim of forgery simply to give Gardiner and out for what he'd tried to pull? However, I also remember reading that Mary was pressured by several advisors to have Elizabeth executed, so there is the possibility that the warrant was forged, not by Gardiner, but one of those advisors. There's also the real possibility that it was Mary herself who issued the warrant but, between issuing it and its delivery to the Tower, she changed her mind; although why she would then say the warrant was a forgery, I don't know. However, I suppose even royalty might feel embarrassed about executing someone on fairly flimsy evidence? FWIW, I understand Elizabeth, after the warrant for her cousin Mary Queen of Scots' execution had been carried out, laid the blame for the execution on her counselors. Perhaps denial of such actions was a family trait? Doug
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Richard III Society Forum] Princess E

2018-01-04 17:01:30
stephenmlark
Correct  Elizabeth tried to imprison Robert Davison, her secretary, afterwards.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: 'Doug Stamate' destama@... []
Sent: 04 January 2018 15:28
To:
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Princess Elizabeth warrant for execution

 
 
 
 
Karen wrote:
I think forgery, although the book doesn't say.. 
 
Doug here:
Well, if Gardiner had tried to pull a fast one, that's the only claim he could make. Perhaps Mary went along with a claim of forgery simply to give Gardiner and out for what he'd tried to pull?
However, I also remember reading that Mary was pressured by several advisors to have Elizabeth executed, so there is the possibility that the warrant was forged, not by Gardiner, but one of those advisors.
There's also the real possibility that it was Mary herself who issued the warrant but, between issuing it and its delivery to the Tower, she changed her mind; although why she would then say the warrant was a forgery, I don't know. However, I suppose even royalty might feel embarrassed about executing someone on fairly flimsy evidence?
FWIW, I understand Elizabeth, after the warrant for her cousin Mary Queen of Scots' execution had been carried out, laid the blame for the execution on her counselors. Perhaps denial of such actions was a family trait?
Doug
 
 
 

--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.