Richard III Research and Discussion Archive

As you are all probably aware of there has been a story hanging around for some time now that when Edward's vault/coffin was discovered in 1790, an adjoining vault was also discovered which contained the coffins of two children that were at the time thought to be those of Edward's children, George who died aged 2 and Mary who died aged 15. As I understand it a ledger stone was laid naming George. A drawing/diagram that was made at that time was on St George timeline clearing showing the ledger stone with the inscription. In 1810 in further work being made in the chapel the actual lead coffins of George and Mary were discovered in another part of the chapel. These were placed in the vault next to Edward and their mother EW. Thus the legend was born that there were two mysterious coffins in the vault and could these be the missing 'princes'. This was on the web page of the chapel and also an article in the Bulletin in September 2001 by someone who worked at the chapel in the capacity of a steward. In the article it stated that further investigation would be made about the vault and its contents but unfortunetaly this was never updated. I thought the story plausible i.e. could Buckingham have murdered the boys and Richard then had the boys secretly buried next to their father. With Marie's help we searched on line for the report made at the time which we found but were unable to download. I then asked the Archivist directly at St George's. They kindly responded. The crux of the matter is that the story on St Georges website is erronious.. When the secret vault was discovered it was not explored but was assumed to probably hold the remains of the Mary & George. If there are coffins in there it is not known when they date from and who they are. St Geroges webpage has now been edited to reflect this. We can now put to bed finally the misinformation that there are coffins of two mysterious children of Edward's in the St George's vault. Eileen

Eileen wrote:

As you are all probably aware of there has been a story hanging around for some time now that when Edward's vault/coffin was discovered in 1790, an adjoining vault was also discovered which contained the coffins of two children that were at the time thought to be those of Edward's children, George who died aged 2 and Mary who died aged 15. As I understand it a ledger stone was laid naming George. A drawing/diagram that was made at that time was on St George timeline clearing showing the ledger stone with the inscription. In 1810 in further work being made in the chapel the actual lead coffins of George and Mary were discovered in another part of the chapel. These were placed in the vault next to Edward and their mother EW. Thus the legend was born that there were two mysterious coffins in the vault and could these be the missing 'princes'. This was on the web page of the chapel and also an article in the Bulletin in Septemb er 2001 by someone who worked at the chapel in the capacity of a steward. In the article it stated that further investigation would be made about the vault and its contents but unfortunetaly this was never updated. I thought the story plausible i.e. could Buckingham have murdered the boys and Richard then had the boys secretly buried next to their father. With Marie's help we searched on line for the report made at the time which we found but were unable to download. I then asked the Archivist directly at St George's. They kindly responded. The crux of the matter is that the story on St Georges website is erronious.. When the secret vault was discovered it was not explored but was assumed to probably hold the remains of the Mary & George. If there are coffins in there it is not known when they date from and who they are. St Geroges webpage has now been edited to reflect this. We can now put to bed finally the mi sinformation that there are coffins of two mysterious children of Edward's in the St George's vault.

Doug here:

Thank you for this information. I'm sorry to say I was unaware of this (hangs head and scuffs toe).

Of course, as some will say, it doesn't exactly disprove the story, as noone knows exactly what else is in the vault; but it does, in my view anyway, reduce what had been an unverified story, to an unverified legend.

You know, just like More's?

Doug

Eileen did a brilliant job. I think it's amazing that she got St. George's Archives to look into this, get to the bottom of it and change their website with a single email.

And I hear what you're saying, Doug, but there is no now more evidence for the Princes being buried in St. George's Chapel than anywhere else in the country. This whole modern legend was based on the false notion that children's coffins had been seen.

It's not really a secret vault, just an unidentified one. A lot of the detail of who was buried where had been forgotten, and there are an astounding number of people known to have been buried in St. George's. Also, both Henry VII and Henry VIII were planning to be buried there at one point. So there's really nothing odd about there being a vault that hasn't been identified. Many, many articles have been written on the history of the chapel, and all the burials and chantry chapels - it's a minefield.

The other thing, when you think about it, is that the Princes' burial would not have been either very secret or very quick if a vault had first had to be constructed under St. George's Chapel to house them.

Marie

Eileen did a brilliant job. I think it's amazing that she got St. George's Archives to look into this, get to the bottom of it and change their website with a single email.

Doug here:

I certainly agree! Getting an organization to alter something that undoubtedly attracted a lot of internet searches...well, good for them!

Marie continued:

And I hear what you're saying, Doug, but there is no now more evidence for the Princes being buried in St. George's Chapel than anywhere else in the country. This whole modern legend was based on the false notion that children's coffins had been seen.

It's not really a secret vault, just an unidentified one. A lot of the detail of who was buried where had been forgotten, and there are an astounding number of people known to have been buried in St. George's. Also, both Henry VII and Henry VIII were planning to be buried there at one point. So there's really nothing odd about there being a vault that hasn't been identified. Many, many articles have been written on the history of the chapel, and all the bu rials and chantry chapels - it's a minefield.

Doug here:

Apparently there's a website, but is there an actual organization that is responsible for discovering what actually is in the various vaults? Or is it off-limits as part of a Royal residence?

Marie concluded:

The other thing, when you think about it, is that the Princes' burial would not have been either very secret or very quick if a vault had first had to be constructed under St. George's Chapel to house them.

Doug here:

Again not unlike More's moving of vast amounts of dirt and stone, twice!, in the middle of the night, in a well-populated Royal residence and with no surviving witnesses!

Doug

Marie

Very interesting indeed, Dianne.

Would your friend be happy to tell us more?